God Spot

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God Spot
This Christian Resource Blog has been created by a group of friends from around the world. Our purpose is to provide links to useful resources, some commentary on topical or doctrinal issues, a place where anyone can come with questions and a means whereby we can share our faith. And above all, to grow and encourage each other. As Christians, we believe we bear God's image in this world, and seek to glorify God's name in this endeavour. Any Christian who wants to join with us is very welcome!

Monday, October 13, 2003

Victoria's Anglican Rebels!

I suspect we might have a few amongst us on this blog, actually (Anglican 'rebels')! But it's a good topic, albeit a potentially very divisive one - and one which can cause much frustration and heartbreak for very many in the church, particularly the women.

From yesterday's front page of the Sunday Age:

Victoria rebels on women bishops

The Melbourne Anglican synod has broken ranks with the rest of the Anglican Church, approving the immediate ordination of women bishops.

The motion was passed by an overwhelming majority and pits the conservative Sydney diocese against the more progressive Melbourne diocese.

Well, I'm glad that this isn't a "salvation" issue; I don't think ultimately that it is one of those "essential doctrine" matters worth dying in a ditch over. But it does call into question things like the authority of scripture, and how we go about interpreting scripture.

Recently, Carol & I have been having a chat about God's order in the natural side of church, and in particular how we understand that verse in 1Ti2:12-14 "I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor."

Here are some of my "thoughts" (& questions) on this, and I would align more closely with the "conservative Sydney" lot, whose basic foundational faith in the authority of scripture I have very much valued. BUT I have many dear Christian friends who see these things very differently...

If Paul (inspired by the Holy Spirit because it's scripture) says something (eg. on order in God's church, or on appearance), then the principle behind the suggestion is what is important. In the case of women not exercising authority over men in the church, then the principle (as clearly stated by Paul) is that it's a recognition (by God) of the Adam & Eve situation (ie. something that stands as a reminder for all time).

I think in many other cases where Paul gives instruction, we see (explicitly or implicitly) that the underlying principle is one of modesty or not looking like prostitutes (appearance), or of practical benefit (not chit-chatting about non-significant issues during formal times of worship). In these instances we today need to apply the same principles (in a way appropriate to today's society).

And here are some of Carol's queries:

>You and I agree with 'order'.
>
>Now.... you say about appearance not mattering.. and Paul
>spoke all those things about appearance.
>You suggest the order of men, then women is something to
>think about. (Are we talking the equality thing here? Like,
>women and men on the same level as is deemed by western
>society now to be correct?)
>
>So, one thing matters (order) but not the other (appearance)?
>How much to the letter does a person go with the order thing?

Well, I must confess that personally I have no problem with women preachers, and I think women prophesying (speaking from their hearts about what God means, or has revealed to them) is always very envouraging, whether we are a listening male or female.

And I would have to say that the proof of the pudding is in the eating, as far as women preaching goes - I believe I have clearly seen women preachers leading people to faith.

But the thing Paul talks about, as a no no (based on the creation argument, ie. God's order) is women teaching ("exercising authority over") men.

This means no problem with women teaching other women (like at BSF), nor women teaching children; it's just women teaching men in that passage of scripture. Also a woman taking a position as elder of a church containing men would violate those words of Paul?

Now I think I hold women in the church in as high (if not higher, really) esteem than men - but I'm trying to align my position with what the Holy Spirit in this passage of scripture is telling us is best for the church, based on God's chosen order (who knows or understands exactly why?).

Modern western culture is for women being exactly equal to men in all regards - and this is my instinct. But is it God's order???

Anyway I don't want to agonise over any of this too much. I find with difficult issues like this, if I just keep an open mind and unhardened heart while I ask and seek answers from God, then if they don't come, then I guess they're not important (for us at this time)!

In conclusion; the issue, I feel, is that when the Holy Spirit (through Paul) gave this instruction, He based it upon a creation-argument (and hence we are not at liberty to simply take it as cultural advice for a particular time but not relevant to our own - progressive as far as women's status goes - society today).

As far as status of women in the Christian church goes, the Holy Spirit (through that same guy, Paul :-)) tell us we are "all one in Christ Jesus" and that's how I view and accept my brothers and sisters - despite each having such diversity of spiritual gifts - for the "common good" of the church. And perhaps the gift of teaching is given to women to be exercised in a very important yet specialised way with other women and particularly children?

But what do others think??

# posted by geoff @ 10:53 am

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